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©2003-2008 Keith Cooper

Image usage information

The fabled EOS 3D

The long long long awaited DSLR

Other info on this site Articles and tutorials Keith's reviews ... software and hardware Digital Black and White All about Colour management Photography and digital imaging info Some of Keith's Landscape photos Using your film scanner as a microscope A Canon 1Ds pinhole camera Attaching a DSLR to a 5x4 view camera Our review policy - for real products Apple Mac info Webcams in Leicester and view from space The What's New Page gives a quick overview of the hundreds of pages of articles and picture on this site.

Rumours pages Rumours Index page Canon Medium Format? 1D Mk4 (1D Mk3N) 5D Mark II /3D/ 7D (and general rumours) New lenses page 50D

Real Cameras Canon EOS 1Ds Mk3 Canon EOS 1D Mark 3 40D 450D/XSi <-- latest 400D If you've got any info, let us know at 1DSreplacement@northlight-images.co.uk

2008 March 4th

At last, a photo of the 3D (or part of it) appears in a magazine. Fortunately someone photographed the page - read the full DPR thread for more info, but do note that it's part of the fake same pic we were sent in August 2006 (see below :-) ... the one with the 40mm f/1.2 lens

February 7th Since reading the Chuck Westfall tea leaves seems to be in vogue at the moment, it's worth noting one of his comments from 2006 I was recently pointed to (thanks ;-)

I've not used ECF (my first Canon camera was the 1Ds) but it is often mentioned on various discussion forums. Whether this feature is one that Canon has continued to develop, we just don't know... Perhaps we'll see it in the fabled EOS 3D which I'm informed will be announced 'real soon now' ;-)

ECF article at Canon.

2008 January 21st The popular 'Tsiphoto' makes a usual late entry on DPR and announces that "pma will not bring a new 5d body..... " This poster, who has a 'better than most'* record with pre-launch info is usually regarded a a harbinger of product announcements on DPR.

*'Better than most' is a relative term - you can check his past posting history on DPR ;-)

The thread also includes several other people's predictions including the interesting...

on Jan 24 they will announce 2 new cameras for PMA: the 7D and the 450D.
The 7D will be the 16Mp successor of the 5D. Making room for a 3D introduction later this year.
The 7D will be the big brother to the 40D. With FF and spectacular high iso performance.
I suspect the 450D to be surprisingly interesting due to a larger viewfinder and an improved AF system with face-detection.

Ah... the fabled 3D! This is at least better than the continuing rehash of the Swedish news article, which keeps appearing on assorted blogs, along with the '7D UPC code' :-)

15th Meanwhile in the US a Canon rep allegedly says [DPR]: "Stay home if you are looking for anything like a 5D follow on at PMA. We just introduced 2 cameras last year - it will not be until the Fall until we do anything with the 5D line."

-If- a replacement 5D was ready to go at the end of last year, then any delay makes it all the more likely that we will see more than one FF camera. It's not unknown for products to get fairly well along the development cycle and then be canned as market conditions change. 3D anyone? :-) :-)

2007 December 30th At last, another mention of the 3D :-)

"The person said 2 DSLRs ($3500 and $2500) will be released next year. He added the later one is 5D successor. New model released in Jan. might be 3D. "

BTW If you're new to the page, see all the info we had back in September regarding the 5D/3D split, 5D2 functionality etc.

2007 December 29th According to 'Hisashi Owada' in an interview (translated from Japanese to Chinese to English, so it could really say almost anything ;-)

"We will launch a strong product. Intermediate camera 'EOS 5D' there will be increased durability and the subsequent pixel models listed. At the same price, we will launch better products. "

Original article
Google translation

Make of that what you will, but improved weather sealing and 16MP look more likely, ...and coming in at the original 5D price?

2007 October 17th

The Mythical 3D

Canon still believe that a greater proportion of the market will move to be full frame as the cost of the sensors come down.

They have on-again / off-again plans to split the 5D and have a lower and higher end full frame model.

The higher end would be weather sealed, and have pro-level AF and exposure

The lower end would have a flash and be like a 40D but with full frame

This is being complicated by the emerging push to bring high end features into the mid range anyway (as per the Nikon D300.

However so far, Canon is still seriously considering the split.

2007 September 15th There are lot's more discussions about the 3D appearing now, while we are waiting for the '5Dmk2'. Unfortunately there's not one that I've found, that doesn't look like a "what I'd want/like/demand in a smaller CHEAPER 1 series camera" post :-)

For 5D price falls in Europe have a look at this DPR thread which has lots of spurious graphs charting the drift/crash downwards in 5D prices (POV depends on whether you like to put the origin on the graph ;-)

2007 August 23rd The D3 and D300 have certainly reignited the 5DMk2 discussions :-) I've even noticed people mentioning the fabled 3D again (it's been rumoured for years :-). It would be highly unlikely that Canon didn't know what Nikon (and Sony) were up to, and must have factored all of this into their calculations.

2007 June 11th Very quiet on the 5D2 front, although I saw my first 3D mention for a long while on DPR (it will replace the 5D next Feb) - not even a faked 3D pic to go with it ;-)

2007 March 14th Some 1D3 prices starting to appear on US sites (thanks for the info) $4999 at zipzoomfly and $4599 at fotoconnection - however supplies are, as expected, somewhat scarce.

In a follow up to the other day's collection of older info that we missed:

There was this interview with Nikon (Oct 2006)...
And Pentax (about K10D)
Rumours about a Canon 500mm f/2.8 (that's a lot of glass in the front element - over 7 inches wide - taking a standard 190mm filter I suppose ;-)
And yet another 3D picture here :-)
Chuck Westfall of Canon interviewed at DCI

2007 February 12th A 3D on its way? From FM

While we're collecting some older posts - there is this collection of info I missed (unfortunately with no sources or attribution) which has a fairly broad range of rumours, including a 4D (popular opinion has always been that Canon would avoid the number 4 for various reasons)

2007 January 29th The 3D rumour just keeps rolling on...

Just when I was wondering where it had got to, a 3D rumour surfaces on DPR - not much at all really, but it's nice to know that this particular rumour,which has been growing in performance and doing the rounds for the last 4-5 years, is not dead

2007 January 17th An interesting post at FM suggesting that there are quite a few cameras to be released this year. So as not to annoy the dealers too much (New everything folks - lots of hard to shift stock). There would be 2 at PMA and two later in the year -- but in what order?. Canon's 'dilemma' (quoted from the FM post) was:

The 1 series should be announced first for pride / reputation with the new features
Even though the 1 series sells in very limited quantities, the professional camera division in Canon has a lot of clout - seen as creating a brand image leadership in the whole camera space.
The 30D replacement is badly required as the 20D/30D's combined market share has dropped radically over the last few months due to a combination of internal competition from the 400D and the market impact of the Nikon D80 and Sony A100 etc.
The 30D series segment is seen as important to Canon because of lens on-sell. This market and upwards tends to buy extra lenses, including high value lenses (I interpret that to be “high profit”).
The two 5D replacements make the most sense if sold together. Though they could announce the high end one first (as a 5D replacment) and then follow with the low end (entry level FF). The low end 5D repalcement is thought too similar to the 5D to be released while the 5D is in the market.
The 5D has not sold as well as hoped in most markets except when rebates are offered. However Canon still sell lots more of them that the 1 series and they are nicely profitable. They also have excellent resell on high value lenses.
The combination of Nikon's aggressive D40 / D80 / D200 range, with the Sony A100 is taking more DSLR market share than Canon predicted. The 400D is selling very well but Canon know they need to regain more of the midrange DLR market quickly to maintain the lens sales and 'own' the system for the advanced amateur and semi-pro etc.
Sony is known to be working on CMOS sensors at 1.6 and FF for their DSLR range and are expected to continue to complete aggressively on features. (Interesting to see what this does for Nikon who currently buy their CCD sensor from Sony) (Also interesting to see no mention of Pentax, which seems stange..).
Hence the big dilemma – 30D replacement and 1 series replacement now or 30D and one of the 5D replacements now and leave the other 5D and 1 series for later. Or do they upset their channels (never a good idea) and issue 3 cammeras to give the market at knockout puch. In terms of revenue and immediate market share protection delaying the 1 series further makes sense. But the new high end 5D replacement to very close to the 1 series performance (16mp etc), and in terms of prestige, the 1 series should be the best (Note, no mention of delaying the 30D replacement so I guess that is a given?)

The 5D replacements

5D would be split into FF two lines to create full frame demand
Low end – similar to current 12 Mp sensor but with a more 30D like body (could be a 7D?) and DIGIC III. This low end and xxD series were meant to provide a more cost effective choice between 1.6 and FF for the advance amateur and allow a gradual migration to more full frame over time driven by the market.
High end with more MP (16mp but not the 1D sensor), improved AF for the full frame, DIGIC III etc. (could be a 3D?)

2006 December 12th I'm told that as from today Canon Australia is offering a $750 rebate on the 1DsMk2 -- until Feb '07. Was seen on printed posters in dealers, not yet on the web - thanks Phil

There is also this Chinese rumour site http://www.fengniao.com/news/47/477501.html which mentions several new cameras. If you run the page through Babelfish you can get a translation (of sorts :-)

Some points?

35D/40D 12MP, Digic III, 5 FPS, 1.6x, new AF, $1300
3D 16MP, better AF with poss Eye control, 5 FPS, 6400 ISO with 12800 mode, more expensive than current 5D
5D Mk2 12MP, 5 FPS, Dustproof, slightly cheaper than current 5D

No news of a 1DsMk2 ... Do bear in mind that this is from a translation that includes such gems as:

No doubt someone will summarise it a bit more accurately :-)

2006 September 10th Thanks to those of you who asked about the several site outages we had over the week - local problems we're afraid, not malevolence from Canon :-)

If someone who speaks better German than me (not difficult) wants to check out this thread on www.dslr-forum.de there are some interesting comments regarding a 3D already being shown to the main dealers? - 11th - The original poster claims that 3D's are listed by wholesalers, but has supplied no evidence, and neither has anyone else... Thanks Erik

2006 August 30th From a DPR thread mentioning some new lenses there was also this snippet. Usual caveats apply -- as in most of this stuff! ;-)

"I did know that they were working on the 85 f/1.2L and 50 f/1.2L that I told you earlier. Canon R&D is working on new DSLRs. We'll see 3D, successor of 5D and DRebel. I have no information about the 40D. They're also working on a series of non L wide angle lenses such as 24, 28, and 35. There're no plan, or I don't know, to replace 24L and 35L. R&D has many different groups working on different project. I only know one. So my information is only 70% accurate. Don't buy anything now especially the 30D and 5D. Dell is offering 25% off for the 5D. You should now why. The 5D successor is better than you can imagine. All DSLRs will have a big jump in performance. The pushed out the 30D just to buy time and fill the gap." (sic)

There may not be an announcement of the '1Ds MkIII' at photokina. We were told that the current release plan for the 'Mk3' is end of November/ start of December. This will depend on KissX [XTi/400D] sales and may get postponed until next year. '1DsMk3' Development is completed and waits for production - which is not yet started.

2006 August 28th 3D as replacement for 1DMk2 [potn]

2006 August 12th Tis the season for conspiracies -- it seems that a thread was removed from the Fred Miranda forum (a good forum - far fewer trolls and "here is a picture of my cat taken with my new XXX" type posts than some others ;-)

6fps FF camera with 5D sensor (5D+ or the fabled 3D)
1Ds III with 5fps 18MP and 8.5 fps 12 or 10MP (aka 1DsN or 1Ds3)
a 35mm 1.8, a 100-400 f/4L IS and a 400 5.6L IS

2006 August 1st Over at Camera West (http://www.camerawest.com/) they are taking advance requests to be put on a 22MP 1Ds waiting list. Doesn't say if it is a 1Ds Mk2 N or the 'Mk3' (Thanks Thomas, for the info)

• New this Fall!
  Canon 1DS 22mp
  Leica M8 Digital
  Nikon D80 10mp

and ... Another pic [See DPJ] of a supposed 3D is doing the rounds.

See also PB for more.

If nothing else, the body design looks a bit tidier than the supposed 3F pictures we were sent a while ago.

The following 'specs' are also posted [FM]...

• Introducing the revolutionary EOS 3D.
• Built from the ground up to represent the new face of digital imaging the EOS 3D will represent a breakthrough in high performance yet affordable photography. Featuring an elegant yet supremely functional design it takes the best of Canon's previous designs and enhances the experience even further. A high performance AF system featuring 27pt of which 11 are x-type down to f/4 while and the centre point is cross-type to f/5.6 and allows AF down to f/11. The AI servo performance has been significantly improved too, exceeding that of the 1D Mk II.
• Also Canon proudly brings ECF to the digital era and is greatly enhanced in performance over that found in the Elan 7NE.
• However, the true revolution lies in the heart of the camera. Packing an amazing 13.3MP into an APS-H sized sensor the images are processed by a new DIGIC III engine. The next generation DIGIC III Image Processor builds on the legendary abilities of the digic II with double the processing power necessary to deliver unprecedented levels of resolution, speed and dynamic range. Despite the EOS 3D having smaller pixels than the EOS 5D, the DIGIC III provides even greater DR, more accurate colour rendition improved WB and lower noise. ISO 50 and 3200 are now part of the standard ISO settings and ISO 25 and 6400 are now included as an expanded option. Also it further reduces power consumption allowing class leading battery performance.
• Thanks to DIGIC III the EOS 3D also boasts an impressive burst rate of 6fps for 18 shots in RAW and 40 in jpg.
• In addition the body adds several sealing gaskets to the all magnesium shell allowing for operation in more extreme environments. A new evaluative algorithm allows more accurate metering in extreme lighting and can even correctly expose subjects like snow. Also a 2.4% spot meter allows for precise metering of any part of the scene. The viewfinder shows an impressive 98% of the scene both horizontally and vertically. Also for the first time Canon will be employing 2.75" OLED display screen, offering superior resolution, brightness and power consumption to LCD screens and having markedly better performance in bright daylight

2006 June 26th E-mail I've received on the 'EOS3' pics overwhelmingly say 'FAKE' - I'm minded to agree ... ho hum, I did say take stuff on this page with a big pinch of salt :-) I'll leave the pics up for the record.

Note, we treat anonymous email with a great deal more scepticism than if you are actually prepared to say who you are...

Some details for the successor to the 1DsMk2? (as with the 3F I'm now minded to be wary of this unless I hear from someone with some more credible info :-)

"23.9 MP, 5FPS @ FF – 9FPS @ .3 CROP. – 28 RAW TO Buffer 72 JPEG – 1498 grams (incl batt) – 3” LCD at 368,000 pixels " -- Along with a suggestion that it will be announced on Monday 28th August. FYI the 1ds2 is 1565 gram and does 4fps with a buffersize of 11 raw and the 1D2n does 8.5fps and 20 raw.

2006 June 25th Since it arrived just as I was going out to the pub on a Saturday night, I didn't look carefully at the picture that came with the 'EOS 3F' picture below... A blast from the past indeed, I thought I hadn't heard anything about Foveon for quite some time. Could this actually be the elusive EOS 3D that people have been postulating for years?

A jpeg (2160x1697) of a CF card that shows somewhat more interesting EXIF data - (3.2 second exposure??)

2006 June 24th Rumours coming a bit faster now on the board, with a 23MP 1Ds Mk11N being a popular vote (along with several new L lenses) Whether the higher dynamic range sensors we heard about in March make it into the next 1Ds, or arrive in something new and big announced in 2007 remains to be seen.

An EOS 3D?

The EOS 3F ?

We were just sent the pic with the sample picture (see above) and no other info so you will just have to make your own minds up on its veracity.

After several requests we've replaced the reduced size version with one at the size we were sent.

...and here is a PS montage -I- put together to compare its size with other cameras (yes it was Sunday morning and I was bored)

Film EOS numbers- http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/EOS/CanonEOSFilmSLRs
Digital EOS numbers - http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/EOS/CanonEOSDigitalSLRs

For some nice pictures and diagrams, have a look at some of Canon's thoughts on the benefit of full frame sensors at http://web.Canon.jp/Imaging/cmos/index-e.html

Given their stated long term aim of moving as many cameras as possible to FF sensors the convergence of 1D and 1Ds will be sooner than later...

"Reading between the lines of the specs and press release, you may discover that the EOS 5D is the first model in a new strategy frm Canon, in the direction of full frame image sensor in many cameras to come. They have now solved many of the obstacles and production cost barriers, first and foremost related to the lowpass filter in front of the CMOS.
Brian Worley, product manager of D-SLR cameras at Canon Europa, said that it's a long way before all EOS models will have a full size sensor, but Canon's aim is to equip all models, except the cheapest, with a 35mm sensor in the future. " From 5D review at http://www.digit.no/wip4/detail.epl?id=59456

2005 July

What about an EOS 3D?

"The camera is supposed to be a full frame camera selling at $4000 CDN. Pixel count is unknown (my guess, 12 MP). Lighter and smaller than the 1D-series. Emphasis is on high ISO performance - both noise and colour. Release is supposed to be second / third week of September (just in time for Xmas)."

This particular rumor has been doing the rounds for some time :-) -- (see the 1Ds MkII page)

4th 3D between 1D and 20D?

2004 24th September More info comes out as the various parts of Canon worldwide catch up to the announcement. Interestingly enough the 'other camera' (EOS 3D) rumours persist, with this comment on the PDN forum: "The big news is there is a new camera (like the EOS 3) which will not have the build quality of the 1 series, better than the 10D, BUT it will be full frame, 11 mp, 9 focus points and sell for $3,000. This camera may not be announced until September or maybe later."

2004 4th September Some people still hoping for an EOS-3D which would sit in between the 1D Mk2 and the new 20D. The best money still looks to be on the 1Ds Mk2 at Photokina (info about event).

---

EOS-3 specs

"A sturdy and modern, full-featured SLR for professionals and advanced amateurs alike, the EOS-3 incorporates a host of technological advances that raise the bar for peformance in a high quality 35mm SLR. These features include a 45-point autofocus system, Canon's amazing Eye-Controlled AF, predictive AF up to 7 frames per second (with optional Power Drive Booster PB-E2 and NP-E2 battery pack), E-TTL auto flash, 18 custom functions, compatibility with Canon's full range of autofocus lenses and Speedlites, and much more. These capabilities are incorporated into a rugged body with easily accessible controls for quick and easy execution of camera operations. Almost instinctual, the EOS-3 will help to ensure that you never miss a shot again."

Product Features

Professional 35mm SLR camera with up to 1/8000 second shutter speed (body only)
Features 45-point Area AF, 21-zone metering, and proven EOS-1N control layout
18 custom functions
Wireless TTL system with Speedlites
Large selection of interchangeable AF lenses, flash systems, and remote controllers

Technical Details

Camera type: 35mm AF/AE single-lens reflex with focal-plane shutter and built-in motor drive
Picture sizes: 24mm x 36mm
Compatible lenses: Canon EF lenses
Lens mount: Canon EF mount
Viewfinder type: Eye-level pentaprism
Viewfinder magnification: 0.72x (-1 diopter with 50mm lens at infinity)
Diopter: -1 (20mm eye relief)

Exposure metering modes:

TTL max. aperture metering with a 21-zone silicon photocell.
Evaluative metering (linkable to any point),
Partial metering (approx. 8.5% of viewfinder at center)
Center spot metering (approx. 2.4% of viewfinder at center)
Spot metering (linked to focusing point at approx. 2.4% of viewfinder)
Multi-spot metering (Max. 8 multi-spot metering entries)
Center-weighted averaging metering

Exposure Control Methods:

Program AE (shiftable)
Shutter speed-priority AE
Aperture-priority AE, Depth-of-field AE
E-TTL program flash AE
A-TTL program flash AE
TTL program flash AE
Manual
Bulb

Metering range: EV 0 to 20

ISO film speed range: ISO 6 to 6400

Autofocus type: TTL-AREA-SIR with a CMOS sensor

Focusing points: Area AF with 45 focusing points

Focusing modes:

One-Shot AF: Autofocus stops when focus is achieved, resulting in AF lock
Predictive AI Servo AF: Tracks subject movement up to the start of exposure
Manual focusing: Enabled with the focusing ring when the lens focus mode is set to MF (or M)
Full- time manual focusing: Enabled with the electronic focusing ring during continuous shooting (except during film exposure)

Other features

Shutter type: Vertical-travel, focal-plane shutter with all speeds electronically-controlled.
Shutter speeds: 30 to 1/8000 sec. in 1/3-stops, X-sync at 1/200 sec.
Shutter release: Soft-touch electromagnetic release
Self-timer: 10-second or 2-second delay
Film loading: Automatic
Automatic rewind: Yes
Flash contacts: Hot shoe: X-sync direct contacts, Below camera back latch: JIS B-type socket (threaded)
External flash system compatibility: E-TTL autoflash, A-TTL autoflash, TTL autoflash
Custom Functions: 18
LCD panel: Displays shooting, metering, AF, and film advance modes; shutter speed, aperture, frame counter, and battery level. Illumination provided
Remote control: Quick-lock, three-pin remote control connector provided (N3 type.)
Power source: One 2CR5 lithium battery housed in the camera grip
Width: 6.3 inches
Height: 4.7 inches
Depth: 2.8 inches
Weight: 27.5 ounces (body only, excluding battery)

Other (real :-) info and stuff on this site

Using your film scanner as a microscope
A Canon 1Ds pinhole camera
Attaching a DSLR to a 5x4 view camera
Reviews of useful hardware and software
Articles and tutorials
Colour management
Keith's Landscape photos
Collection of photography and digital imaging info
Apple Mac info
Webcams in Leicester and view from space