Canon 1D Mk4 (EOS-1D MkIV) - replacement for the 1D Mk323rd June 2009 - A world of rumours...Rumours pages Real Cameras Latest articles: Jane Fonda and Me... A print from previously unseen photographs taken on the set of the making of Barbarella in 1967 Using tilt lenses - What happens when you tilt a lens. Includes sets of tables with lens settings. Producing a black and white print - from camera to print. Our collected information about the eventual replacement of the EOS 1D Mk3
Any info? please let us know via the Contact Form Rumours RSS feed | 'What's New' RSS Feed The 1D4 Rumours2009 June 23rd We're told [thanks] of a large UK dealer that has one 1D3 in stock and said that 'it was their last one'. An odd comment if a replacement was not going to be announced until Aug/September. Anyone else noted a shortage of the 1D3? BTW - In the 'specs' posted on the 17th I mistyped the max ISO as 26500, not 25600 (fixed now). It's interesting to see this typo make its way round various rumour sites and forums, both with attribution and without :-) 22nd Time for 1D3 owners to have a word with their Canon rep? From a long 1D4 thread on [POTN] and attributed to a CPS rep.
This would still fit with a late summer announcement - delivery of a few cameras before Christmas. In additional comments from out 'Tester' we've a bit more on that test camera:
It seems that there are quite a few of these out and about. It was supplied 'blacked out' where the IV and 1D should be, but with 'Canon' still visible. 18th Fixed typo in yesterdays comments about sRAW 17th 1D4 testing? Comments from a Canon camera tester.
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Amazon UK link / Amazon USA link / Amazon Canada link Canon, it seems, are particularly keen for reports of problems in sports use ;-) Note this refers to a particular test camera, and as Canon regularly tell people doing testing 'not all features may make it to production'.
Testing is carried out on different parts of cameras in different bodies, so if a 1D4 arrives in August, expect the specs to be pretty close. If it doesn't turn up until January, then quite a bit could be different (such as an FF sensor, which we've also heard of being tested) 14th We're told (thanks) of a conversation with a Canon rep in the US. Their comment was that if you want better noise/ISO/MP/AF and FF then the new 1D will only disappoint on the FF front. "The real engineering issue here is the speed of the mirror on FF bodies. The 1.3 size allows for faster mirror operation." Nothing on video though... 13th Aug 25th for 60D and 1D4? [CR] 10th More comments that the 1D4 may still be a crop (~15MP) sensor [CR] Some new cameras also seen in the wild? [POTN] 3rd In an update from one of our longer lived sources, they were told that the 'new 1D' could be purchased by the end of the year and that it would include 'HD Video'. 2nd Suggestions of an Autumn (Fall) launch for both 1D4 and 1Ds4 In Spanish at DSLRMag. The suggestion is that we may not see a full frame 1D4. May 20th Faster FPS with sRAW for the 1D4? [CR] We've had comments for some time pointing to Canon developments in pixel binning technologies, and before long are expecting that much as you currently make a trade-off between noise and ISO, there will be more such options available. 13th A new '1' series is spotted being tested in Canada [DPR]. Follow the tread and see what you can work out... 10th 16MP, 10fps, and built in WiFi are amongst the latest suggestions That and video performance to leave the 5D2 in its wake (later threads at POTN) April 28th We hear from Spain (thanks) about a well known camera tester (Valentin Sama) who says Canon are soon going to lend agencies/press photographers beta versions of its new "high end" cameras. [DSLR] "Se confirma que Canon proporcionará en breve, a fotógrafos de agencias de prensa, unidades de nuevo/s modelo/s profesionales cara a su testeo "beta". Los anuncios podrían ser para mediados de agosto." Possible mid August release? 26th A couple of comments today (thanks) that suggested that much improved video (over 5D2 functionality) would be reserved for a 1D series update, and that it would be 'soon'. Of course 'soon' is a rather flexible term when coming from a Canon rep at a trade show. I suspect this year rather than next. 21st A possible pointer to a September launch? At CR they note a Reuters NDA with Canon June-Aug. Hopefully not just for a new range of office copiers...
See the full picture on FM Usual photoshop warnings apply ;-) 14th From a Chinese forum [Thanks] there is a suggestion that the 1D4 will come in June/July. This from a press contact enquiring of Canon about buying new kit [Xi]. Only brief specs:
3rd How about: "18.2 mp, 12fps, 3.2" OCD rear screen, full frame, 65 zone metering with contrast distinction, 48 focus pts (48,21,11). The mirror is being redesigned and will not move. Viewfinder larger and brighter. Wireless file transfer capability via wifi. And more." A suggestion at POTN... Some aspects are similar to what we've heard in the past, but as yet, we're not putting more than a side bet on these specs. March 31st A hint? Read those tea-leaves and look at the front of the latest spring EOS system catalogue [DPR] 10th Another comment from PMA [SS] suggesting that there won't be a Mk4 until next year. Several suggestions in an FM thread, that it will be 16MP but it won't be FF. Add to that a Canon announcement of an event on the 25th and we can expect the rumour pot to bubble a bit more... 9th Although we've had a few comments suggesting a 1D3 update this year, there are others such as CR and our own info at the end of last month, that suggest it may not be till 2010 that the 1D4 is seen. Well... at least it rattles a few cages on DPR ;-) 7th From Germany we hear of a comment at a major dealership, concerning a new camera to be announced -after- PMA. The 'new' 1D will supposedly be 16MP and full frame. Whilst most people reserve a degree of skepticism for comments via dealers, it's worth noting that this news lost them a 5D2 sale. On todays general rumours page we noted a suggestion of a Canon announcement on the 25th. Comments we had last week suggested that it would be Autumn before a new 1D would be seen. February 28th From our main rumours page The all new AF is not yet ready and sales of the 1D III have picked up. Given the importance of the AF issues, this won't be rushed. Two dates are targeted for potential release, August 2009 or January/ February 2010 (3 year cycle). A key design target for the new model is to have much improved autofocus in movie mode and live view. This would allow well over 10FPS in a smaller raw or JPEG image mode with main mirror lock up. The aim is to create a class leading FPS for sports. 15-20FPS is in Canon's sights. Much is still dependent on getting AF not just right, but impressively so. Broad specs are still similar to what we were told in November
25th A thread at DPR suggests a 1D4 "The Mk4 will bring in to line recent upgrades seen in the 5DMk2, such as 920k LCD, Movie mode & revised AF and higher ISO capabilities." Not much actual info if you follow the thread... 11th No update at PMA according to PB January 29th A comment [POTN] via a Canon Rep suggests a 'new Mk3' and a 'rebel with video' 27th We were sent the screen image of the supposed 1D3N stock listing. This is the key bit - note the price 4240 Euros Whoever originally posted the image obviously took the time to remove some bits of the screen image - of course this says nothing about the reliability of the image.
Anyone know any more of this? 26th Has a stock code for a 1D3N been sighted on a German computer? At [CR] they're not sure... A quick review of what the 1D2N changed
We actually have a page dating from the last update, which details the 1D2 to 1D2N differences. What might we get? A better display, a bit bigger buffer? 16th More interesting comment on the implications of video at events in this [POTN] thread. 12th We've had several comments on the 'broadcast' implications of including video, from sports photographers, including several that have used the 5D2 for some work, but deliberately didn't shoot any video 'just in case' ;-) The overall feeling I got was that this was something that would be sorted out and could be incorporated into existing contracts and agreements. There is a suggestion of a May 19th Announcement date [CR] When it does come, expect to see one or more new versions of white prime lenses to go along with it (most date from the last century) 2008 December 31st I've seen several threads of late suggesting that including video in the next 'sports' 1 series might run up against problems with some sports official bodies with respect to 'broadcast rights'. This example [DPR] w.r.t Football "...Canon has a replacement for the 1D MKIII ready to launch during the second quarter of 2009. What's holding Canon back is a decision from FIFA ... to allow pro-cameras with video capability ( see 5D MKII) during sporting events. FIFA is currently looking into the legal implications with television rights and contracts with broadcasters. If FIFA give the green light then Canon will release the camera." Not having any professional connection with sports photography at all, I'm not sure the extent to which this is a real issue? 20th Interestingly, as some sources suggest an announcement in the next month or two, we've had a comment from one of our 'longer lived' sources suggesting that any announcement has been put back to later in the year. Is it the combination of the economy and the less than enthusiastic response (in some quarters) to the Nikon D3x that makes a launch somewhat less imperative? That or a chance to test the new AF a bit more ;-) 15th A Swedish blog - after talking with a senior Canon Exec More video to come and this (Google translation)
...or in better English ;-) "He says he will invite the journalists for new products "Soon, very soon" also we should expect shorter than the usual 3 years of product life in the pro segment." Look for an announcement as soon as January 22nd, 2009 2008 December 12th 1D3 and/or 1Ds3 updates by April at the earliest? A Canon service inspired rumour [POTN] "Canon were set to announce a whole new revamp to their top of the line model - and possibly [an]other in the 1 range" ... 3D anyone? :-) 5th How about a camera next Autumn? Some assorted set of specs from [CR]
Also mentioned was the possibility of a super high speed crop mode. November 28th After recent comments we've had, we went back to some of our previous sources and asked what's happening with the 1 series next year. For the 'sports' Camera... The favourite is still a FF sensor with dynamic cropping and various sRAW options A 21mp FF sensor is the equivalent of a ~12.8MP 1.3 crop. 21MP is a proven resolution and a worthwhile step up for 1D III users. It could though be a ‘slightly denser’ chip in the 24+MP range. So as not to be seen trailing the Sony A900 and Nikon D3x (24.5MP see D3x page) At that pixel density there is still a potential level of ISO sensitivity improvement that could be easily added. Two DIGIC 4 processors has the bandwidth for the ISO improvements and 10fps Movie Mode and GPS/wireless are almost certain Key emphasis is a visibly different AF system to deal with the market backlash over the 1D III March / April 2009 is expected. This camera's natural competitor is still the Nikon D3, over which it would have a 50%+ resolution advantage at what Canon feel to be lower noise high ISOs. For the Studio Camera 1Ds3 replacement. Less critical in timing than the 'sports' model (September 2009). Canon are looking at a lot higher resolution. Think 50D pixels (~38MP), one further generation of low ISO performance (so that about 39Mp) which can manage 5fps with dual DIGIC 4. This camera's natural competitor is the Nikon D3x over which it would have a 50%+ resolution advantage at what Canon feel to be lower noise high ISOs. We've also some more general Canon info on the main rumours/7D page 26th We've had a comment that the 1Ds3 and 1D3 lines will finally get merged next year with a new 1D style body at 26MP full frame, with a fast fps cropped mode (15MP) and complex pixel binning based modes. The AF is redesigned too. Whilst it sounds nice, I've heard far more comments that the two lines are addressing different enough markets to stay apart for a while yet. October 18th In the 'Sure they'll bring out an APS-C One series camera' category, we have a supposed press release for 4th Nov at CR (a 1Di fyi) 8.2MP, APS-C - electronic mirror and no mention of those pesky video capabilities - :-) 16th On CR, a potential announcement date for new Canon stuff - Feb 10th for replacements for the 1D3, 450D (Rebel XSi) and 1000D (Rebel XS) and two lenses (not the 35L since that's for the 1Ds4 in the Summer). It's also suggested that it won't be called a 1D mark 4 Any change of name is probably a marketing led initiative to distance the camera from the 1D3 and its 'issues' September 22nd Some 1D4 specs [DPR]
20th The 1D4 is expected for next March, whilst it may even be launched with the 1Ds4 if Canon feel that they can steal a march on any new Nikon FF cameras. However with distinct noises of a Nikon announcement as soon as November [D3x page] who knows when we might see changes. We also noted a claim [DPR] that 1D3 production has stopped From the 1Ds4 page
3rd More Canon technical info.... 60D features, 70D prospects, feature migration from the 'pro' range and the wholesale redesign of what a 'professional' camera is. (warning - mentions EVF - I know this scares some people ;-) Info on the 60D page (now updated with lots more info just received) August 24th Following on from the general Canon technical plans information we received the other day (see 5D2 page) we were told to expect to start seeing some serious price drops on the 1Ds3 in readiness for new 1 series cameras next year. Not until other high MP competitors (Sony, Nikon) start shipping though. 22nd Although I hear of some dealer shortages in Germany, I'd not expecting the next '1' series camera until early next year. In an interesting FM post there is some comment about what we can expect to see before too long from Canon. Some quotes:
Given the 'leaked' 50D specs, it will be interesting to see if the next cameras from Canon show any of these features. We checked with one of our previous sources, who confirmed that much of the FM post seemed quite accurate - we've some updated info on this on the 5D2 page 12th After perhaps the shock of not seeing a continuous wall of white lenses at the Olympics, 'discussion' has started on the next 50MP 1D4 at DPR, of course the more knowledgeable posters are pointing out the well known lens resolution problems that have already rendered my 21MP 1Ds3 almost useless... ;-) The 50MP figure pops up every so often, based on that experimental sensor info from Canon a while ago. We've the 'new technology' info we were sent this time last year:
Look for any new prime 'L' glass to be extremely sharp if it's going to be for this ;-) 2008 August 6th After people have read the article by Rob Galbraith on 1D3 AF issues, there has been renewed talk about a 1D4 or 1D3N. Note though, from many of the 'comments' I've seen, I suspect a lot of people didn't really read all of it ;-) Whilst many still suggest it will be three years between 1D3 and 4 (ie early 2010) there are lots of comments suggesting that Canon might pull out something a bit sooner. In a DPR thread it was pointed out that: "in Europe Canon has been selling quite a few 1D mkIII bodies on Ebay through their outlet channel lately. All were refurbished bodies with full warranty. It surprised me though that they were selling about 20-30 of them in just a few weeks. Most were sold for about 2/3 of lowest new price." July 8th Renewed speculation of multiple Canon releases (see 5d2 page for general details) now include a new 1 series camera - 'just' 10MP and with superb low light performance. I do quite a lot of available light work, and while my 1Ds3 is good, a FF 1 series high ISO special would, even at 10MP, be excellent. The clients I have for this sort of work rarely want huge prints and I do have to remember just what I could get from the 11MP of the 1Ds
May 28th In true rumour style I note a call [POTN] for a 1D3 replacement in February :-) In a bit more solid support of this I heard from someone who was at a Canon presentation, where it was stated that there would not be a new 1D series camera this year... 11th A 10.1 MP FF sensor for the 1D3n? Comment on a site (Google translation) Japanese 6th Some Autumn 1DMk3N info? Japanese page (Google translation for amusement ;-) April 30th At FM there's a post suggesting June for the next series of Canon releases. As well as the usual 5D2 there is a 1DMk3N and two lenses (note no appearance of June in the list below) 23rd With the expected non-announcement yesterday, there's been a lot more speculation about a possible 1D3n appearing this summer. For the seers out there it's worth looking at the release dates of the One series
The IIn does look a bit of an aberation. I'd personally expect a (FF) Mk4 rather than seeing a IIIn. It -might- come in for PMA 2009 but I'd expect a 2.5-3 year cycle like before. Of course that doesn't rule out the fabled 3D next year, of even a cheaper FF camera such as is alluded to in the Canon Exec's recent remarks (5D2 page). The FF landscape should look a bit different by then ;-) My own thought is that we will see quite a bit more new glass yet this year (and yes I'm still personally looking for a couple of all new tilt/shift lenses) 18th At DCW there is an interview (in Japanese) that drops a few hints about what Canon is planning. Here's one translation from babelfish and one from Google (more info and translations on the 5D2 page) Some have seen some of this as evidence for another full frame camera other than the 5D replacement. However, if you look at the machine translations they could say almost anything. Also, knowing the somewhat eliptical way (to me) that Japanese executives describe business plans, it could mean almost anything. 9th Another 1D3n rumour at USPI "a Canon 1d MKIIIn is on its way around Sept, full frame" March 12th Is there an announcement of something this Autumn? Lots of rumours on the 5D2 page, which includes this, about something else new... "The new Canon flagship, this Fall, will have a "1.5:1 price/performance advantage to the Nikon flagship." (Read carefully: this statement refers to the coming Canon flagship, not the 5D II being discussed here)." Could this be the high speed FF camera to (hopefully) put some of Canon's 1D3 AF woes behind them? February 6th Some future hints in an interview with Chuck Westfall at CNET.
"-- With Nikon and now Sony adding weight to the full-frame market, what role is there for the in-between sensor size, APS-H? (It's about halfway between the full-frame sensors used in the high-end SLRs and the APS-C sensors use in the top-selling models such as the Rebel XTi and 40D. The APS-H is used in the 1D Mark III and its predecessors.) So it's an FF 1D4, with OLED display, built in GPS and powered by methanol (You can also see this in this 2005 PDF with his thoughts on where digital cameras were going (don't expect too much! ;-) 5th The news that Canon have a 'Final Fix' for the 1D3 AF problem (see 1D3 page) is still being digested, although as yet Canon have not actually said anything officially (no-one believe they were naive enough to think news like this would be kept to the select few originally informed) What effect this has on the follow up for the 1D3 is unclear, although it now seems much more likely to be full frame. In an interview with Chuck Westfall of Canon US in the video on this page (parts in English after about 50 seconds) he notes that the when the 1D3 was announced, there was no full frame competition, whereas there is now. Given he's a PR man this is about as strong a hint as any that the 1D'x' will be full frame. Did he said that Canon would 'eventually' move to FF for all but introductory cameras a few years ago? (this is often supposed, but see December 6th 2006 in our rumours archive for what he actually said) January 30th Will there be a trade-in program once whatever follows the 1D3 appears? This from FM "...the Canon rep told him that there will probably be a program where present owners of the 1DmkIII will be permitted to turn in there cameras toward a new 1DmkIIIN. When there will be a MKIIIN wasn't clear." 16th Some latest comments we were sent about something (24MP) that might fulfil the role of 1D3 follow-up are on the 5D2 page (25FPS version later this year/early next -- £1800 with a range of 'kit' lenses :-) 4th More suggestions from Germany, pointing to a recent 500 Euro fall in 1D3 prices. 2007 December 2nd Whilst I personally think it's too early for any replacement to be announced (after 1 year), there's a post on a German board which roughly translates (Google) as: "In brief: In February comes a new 1D MarkIIIN on the market, meanwhile recalled all 1D MarkIII in the affected serial numbers, and conversion to a new MarkIIIN." i.e. swap your dodgy 1D3 for a shiny new 1D3N :-) :-) November 13th In an interesting mail we were sent, which updated some details of the material we had in September, it would seem that there will be no 1D Mk. IIIN and no 1D Mk. IV... It's the 1Dx (or whatever 'x' is ;-) "The 1DMk3 AF issues have been a great embarrassment for Canon. The camera is not selling as well as hoped. The D3 and Nikon's new lenses are now seen as a serious threat to the sports and photojournalism market segments. The 1D III was intended to be a ground-breaking camera, but now is considered 'Kyou' or bad luck, attributed to it being the 4th camera in the 1D Series. The new camera -will- be a 1D but with a new name - expect it to appear in Aug/Sept of 2008" Some 'headline' specs
Whilst I always make a point of reminding people that these rumour pages are just that, and to take what you see here accordingly, this bit of info fits well into other stuff we've had (as good rumours should! ;-)
31st October Whilst waiting for Canon to announce the details of the fix for the 1D3 AF problems, I notice that people are starting to ask about a possible 1D3N or 1D4. The 1D2N came out about 18 months after the 1D2, so if Canon want to add a better LCD and improve the AF on liveview, then look for an announcement ready in time for Photokina 2008 (see our info below). Look for a slew of updated features, but probably not the sensor. One thing that may well move this on nicely is the return of Nikon as a real competitor in many areas that Canon had perhaps been a bit too comfortable in... 17th September From our large quantity of Canon related info received recently there's some pointers to what could be in the MK4 Digic IV uses less power, and is faster than the dual Digic 3 found in the 1D3 and 1Ds3. In particular it can support 16bit raw and the larger 40-50MP sensors under development. With the larger sensors, it also supports pixel-binning where pixels are agregated to deliver low noise and higher ISO performance at lower resolutions. Canon is working on a new generation CMOS sensor lower voltage, full 100% cover micro-lenses and better dynamic range allowing 16 bit A/D per pixel raw files. These will support a clean 6400 ISO similar to today's 1600 and go to 25600 with acceptable noise. The next generation low voltage CMOS generally gives 1 to 2 stops lower noise at higher ISOs Target for this is the next generation of the 1D series cameras in 2010, before spreading to other models. These are being trialled with 'normal' sensors and others at 40-50MP in FF format (not 'in the field' for a year or so) Canon is very excited about these sensors seeing them as being as big a step up in performance as their move from CCD to CMOS a decade ago. What to do with those 50MP images... Canon is considering built in hard drives (moving or solid state) in the 80-100gb range in future generations of cameras mostly likely in a optional grip. A even higher FPS, with mirror lockup just using sensor contrast AF allowing even higher frame rates. Dynamic 1.3 crop is an option, but was not seen as an important feature at the time by people testing the 1D3 Canon have working MPEG DIGIC III code for their P&S range. This was tried in some of the test cameras sent out during 1D Mk3 trials. It's expected that this will appear in the entry level camera (xxxD range) next year (2008) Canon is seeing this as an important feature in the 1D Mk IV range in 2010 (it would be HD video) 1DMk3nThere might yet be a 1DMk3n - but given the 3 year development cycle this won't be decided until next year. Options include
23rd August Nikon move to FF too (Nikon D3 info) Very interesting specs and well worth a look for 1D3 users - look to see some of these features in the 1D3N ;-) Note the attention in the press release given to 11FPS and the AF system ;-) When was that camera announced?
The original EOS 1DMk3
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